NPU support?


Message boards : Wish list : NPU support?

Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.
AuthorMessage
KLiK

Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 14
Posts: 29
Credit: 20,421,951
RAC: 1,011
Message 8812 - Posted: 21 Feb 2025, 6:08:49 UTC
Is Asteroids@home thinking of implementing special apps for NPU support for newer CPU processors which will have NPU included for AI calcs?

& will there be additional NPU support also for additional devices, such as Google TPU device Coral?

Thanks for answering,




non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU
ID: 8812 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Ian&Steve C.
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 23 Apr 21
Posts: 104
Credit: 122,959,326
RAC: 4,734
Message 8814 - Posted: 21 Feb 2025, 14:27:31 UTC - in response to Message 8812.  
you keep asking this at different projects. do you understand what an NPU is and does? if you did, you would probably realize that they are not suited for just about any BOINC project.

NPUs are used for low precision inferencing on AI tasks. it's kind of like asking if you can use your bitcoin miner for BOINC. they are both ASICs designed for one thing, and unless you're doing that one thing, they wont be able to be used.

the only exception would be if these integrated NPUs had built in logic in their task scheduler to recognize matching calls and instructions that could be offloaded to the NPU. but in that case, it would all be internal to the device itself, and it would be totally transparent to the project and the users with no changes needed. but since the vast majority of the work here is the double data type (FP64), the NPU would have little or nothing to do.

the only project that MIGHT have any hope to use an NPU could be LLMentor-Grid, and only if they are using or plan to use low precision (4 or 8 bit) in their computations.

ID: 8814 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote
ahorek's team
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 1 Jan 13
Posts: 125
Credit: 11,129,491
RAC: 4,671
Message 8815 - Posted: 21 Feb 2025, 15:36:58 UTC
The primary goal of an NPU is power efficiency. It functions similarly to a video accelerator in a GPU, which excels at decoding video efficiently but it's unusable for anything else.
You can decode a video on a general-purpose CPU or a GPU, but the efficiency won't be as good and it'll drain your battery faster. That’s also why desktop PCs don’t include an NPU, they don’t need one.

NPUs also don't have a standardized API like an OpenCL Each vendor has their specific API, so it's hard to utilize them reliably on a platform like BOINC.

New projects might find uses for an NPU in AI tasks, but it won't be technically usable for most current BOINC apps, even if developers wanted to.
Remember that GPUs will continue to be significantly more powerful for AI and easier to work with, which is another reason I don’t expect any BOINC NPU projects in the near future.
ID: 8815 · Rating: 0 · rate: Rate + / Rate - Report as offensive     Reply Quote

Message boards : Wish list : NPU support?